Discussion:
Reorganize documentation for Cucumber at Github
(too old to reply)
Fernando Perez
2009-01-17 17:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I actually just noticed that Cucumber has plenty good documentation on
its wiki at github. But the problems are:

- The homepage is badly designed as it doesn't really outline an order
to read other pages
- It is impossible to make the difference between internal links to the
wiki and links that will bring us some where else unless we hover over
the link
- Pages don't link to each other such as: read next page or previous
page, or related pages
- Pages are just sorted alphabetically which is not a proper way of
sorting

Would it be possible to at least number the pages in the order in which
we should read as if we were reading a book about cucumber?

The documentation seems excellent but is definitely not well marketed
for new comers :)
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
Tom Cloyd
2009-01-17 21:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fernando Perez
Hi,
I actually just noticed that Cucumber has plenty good documentation on
- The homepage is badly designed as it doesn't really outline an order
to read other pages
- It is impossible to make the difference between internal links to the
wiki and links that will bring us some where else unless we hover over
the link
- Pages don't link to each other such as: read next page or previous
page, or related pages
- Pages are just sorted alphabetically which is not a proper way of
sorting
Would it be possible to at least number the pages in the order in which
we should read as if we were reading a book about cucumber?
The documentation seems excellent but is definitely not well marketed
for new comers :)
Oh, I totally agree. Add in the fact that the Rails stuff is just a mess
for non-Rails people to read, and we really have two problems to solve.
That's how I, at least, have been experiencing it.

My own solution is to build my own procedural outline. I'm working on it
today, in fact - sort of a "Cucumber for dummies" document. In my
conception, liberal use will be made of links to existing pages, or to
sections thereof, as there's no need to attempt to redo what the experts
have already done well. I figure if I write what I wish I'd encountered
when I went to the wiki, and then see if I can get it there, it might
help other folks.

Your final sentence says it all - great documentation, but not for
newbies. Where's the starting point? Etc.

I'm working on this thing right now, and maybe it'll be far enough along
for some kind of review this weekend. Or...I could put it up, say on a
Google Sites wiki, and several of us could work on it. Any thoughts? I
actually prefer to work in a group, but have already started on my own.

Yeah, I like that idea - a temporary Google Sites wiki.

Tom
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< tc-rItITSJN2CpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
aslak hellesoy
2009-01-18 00:34:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Cloyd
Post by Fernando Perez
Hi,
I actually just noticed that Cucumber has plenty good documentation on
- The homepage is badly designed as it doesn't really outline an order
to read other pages
- It is impossible to make the difference between internal links to the
wiki and links that will bring us some where else unless we hover over
the link
- Pages don't link to each other such as: read next page or previous
page, or related pages
- Pages are just sorted alphabetically which is not a proper way of
sorting
Would it be possible to at least number the pages in the order in which
we should read as if we were reading a book about cucumber?
The documentation seems excellent but is definitely not well marketed
for new comers :)
Oh, I totally agree. Add in the fact that the Rails stuff is just a mess
for non-Rails people to read, and we really have two problems to solve.
That's how I, at least, have been experiencing it.
My own solution is to build my own procedural outline. I'm working on it
today, in fact - sort of a "Cucumber for dummies" document. In my
conception, liberal use will be made of links to existing pages, or to
sections thereof, as there's no need to attempt to redo what the experts
have already done well. I figure if I write what I wish I'd encountered when
I went to the wiki, and then see if I can get it there, it might help other
folks.
Your final sentence says it all - great documentation, but not for newbies.
Where's the starting point? Etc.
Where is the starting point! There is none! Haha. And the GitHub Wiki Home
page is probably the worst page in the whole Wiki.

Honestly - I think what's needed is:

1) Move a lot of the random stuff from Home to separate pages
2) Make the Home page really short - with links to a few new pages:

* General Five Minute Introduction (Pure Cucumber/Ruby stuff - no Rails) -
Narrative, sequential style, link to other specific pages - ideally most of
them.
* Rails-specific Five Minute Introduction (to be read after the other 5
minute one). Cucumber Backgrounder is a very good start for this, but I
think it's a little rambling :-)

I'd like to write these intros myself, so please don't start doing massive
edits. Instead, I'd love to get input of an outline for these Introduction
pages.

How does that sound?

Aslak
Post by Tom Cloyd
I'm working on this thing right now, and maybe it'll be far enough along
for some kind of review this weekend. Or...I could put it up, say on a
Google Sites wiki, and several of us could work on it. Any thoughts? I
actually prefer to work in a group, but have already started on my own.
Yeah, I like that idea - a temporary Google Sites wiki.
Tom
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website) << sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental
health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
Aslak (::)
aslak hellesoy
2009-01-18 01:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by aslak hellesoy
Post by Tom Cloyd
Post by Fernando Perez
Hi,
I actually just noticed that Cucumber has plenty good documentation on
- The homepage is badly designed as it doesn't really outline an order
to read other pages
- It is impossible to make the difference between internal links to the
wiki and links that will bring us some where else unless we hover over
the link
- Pages don't link to each other such as: read next page or previous
page, or related pages
- Pages are just sorted alphabetically which is not a proper way of
sorting
Would it be possible to at least number the pages in the order in which
we should read as if we were reading a book about cucumber?
The documentation seems excellent but is definitely not well marketed
for new comers :)
Oh, I totally agree. Add in the fact that the Rails stuff is just a mess
for non-Rails people to read, and we really have two problems to solve.
That's how I, at least, have been experiencing it.
My own solution is to build my own procedural outline. I'm working on it
today, in fact - sort of a "Cucumber for dummies" document. In my
conception, liberal use will be made of links to existing pages, or to
sections thereof, as there's no need to attempt to redo what the experts
have already done well. I figure if I write what I wish I'd encountered when
I went to the wiki, and then see if I can get it there, it might help other
folks.
Your final sentence says it all - great documentation, but not for
newbies. Where's the starting point? Etc.
Where is the starting point! There is none! Haha. And the GitHub Wiki Home
page is probably the worst page in the whole Wiki.
1) Move a lot of the random stuff from Home to separate pages
* General Five Minute Introduction (Pure Cucumber/Ruby stuff - no Rails) -
Narrative, sequential style, link to other specific pages - ideally most of
them.
* Rails-specific Five Minute Introduction (to be read after the other 5
minute one). Cucumber Backgrounder is a very good start for this, but I
think it's a little rambling :-)
I'd like to write these intros myself, so please don't start doing massive
edits. Instead, I'd love to get input of an outline for these Introduction
pages.
How does that sound?
Ok, I'll give a stab at what a 5 minute introduction might contain. Please
comment.

1) Who should use Cucumber, and what benefits can you get from it?
2) How Cucumber works (high level explanation without getting too
technical).
3) Learn the nomenclature - features, scenarios, steps (step definitions
later). Some style guidlines.
4) What does a Cucumber feature look like (plain - no outlines or tables).
Learn how to write one in a simple text editor.
5) How to install and run Cucumber (using the one from 3 as example. No Rake
yet - just the cucumber command)
6) What does the output from Cucumber mean? (Learn to read the deafault
console output. Colours and error messages. Mention other formatters)
7) Learn to write step definitions (they are similar to defining methods in
most imperative languages like Ruby, Java, C, Pascal....). Mention Regexps,
Rubular.com.
8) How to implement the body of a step definition. Learn about RSpec's
#should and #should_not - and matchers
9) How to fix a failing (red) step definition by writing some code (in lib
for now since we're not doing any Rails)
10) Mention DTSTTCPW and refactoring - with some external links. TDD basics.
11) Learn how to use Rake (useful when you have more than one feature file).
Mention RCov.
12) Learn about the various command-line switches
13) Learn about more advanced Gherkin (Cucumber language) features such as
Tables, PyString, Scenario Outlines and Background (coming soon)
14) Learn about hooks (Before, After etc)
15) Various other features (CUCUMBER_COLORS, AutoTest, cucumber.yml
(profiles)
16) IDE support
17) How to use other assertion tools like Test::Unit, Shoulda, etc.
18) How to use Cukes with non-Ruby platforms (Watir family, JRuby, IronRuby,
FunFX/Flex)

The reader will gradually learn about the recommended file layout structure.

Maybe this is more like a 10-15 minute intro. I'll try to keep it as short
as possible without skipping important concepts.

What's missing? What's in the wrong order? What should I remove?

Aslak
Post by aslak hellesoy
Aslak
Post by Tom Cloyd
I'm working on this thing right now, and maybe it'll be far enough along
for some kind of review this weekend. Or...I could put it up, say on a
Google Sites wiki, and several of us could work on it. Any thoughts? I
actually prefer to work in a group, but have already started on my own.
Yeah, I like that idea - a temporary Google Sites wiki.
Tom
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website) << sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental
health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
Aslak (::)
--
Aslak (::)
Tom Cloyd
2009-01-18 02:40:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 1:34 AM, aslak hellesoy
Hi,
I actually just noticed that Cucumber has plenty good
documentation on
- The homepage is badly designed as it doesn't really
outline an order
to read other pages
- It is impossible to make the difference between internal
links to the
wiki and links that will bring us some where else unless
we hover over
the link
- Pages don't link to each other such as: read next page
or previous
page, or related pages
- Pages are just sorted alphabetically which is not a proper way of
sorting
Would it be possible to at least number the pages in the
order in which
we should read as if we were reading a book about cucumber?
The documentation seems excellent but is definitely not
well marketed
for new comers :)
Oh, I totally agree. Add in the fact that the Rails stuff is
just a mess for non-Rails people to read, and we really have
two problems to solve. That's how I, at least, have been
experiencing it.
My own solution is to build my own procedural outline. I'm
working on it today, in fact - sort of a "Cucumber for
dummies" document. In my conception, liberal use will be made
of links to existing pages, or to sections thereof, as there's
no need to attempt to redo what the experts have already done
well. I figure if I write what I wish I'd encountered when I
went to the wiki, and then see if I can get it there, it might
help other folks.
Your final sentence says it all - great documentation, but not
for newbies. Where's the starting point? Etc.
Where is the starting point! There is none! Haha. And the GitHub
Wiki Home page is probably the worst page in the whole Wiki.
1) Move a lot of the random stuff from Home to separate pages
* General Five Minute Introduction (Pure Cucumber/Ruby stuff - no
Rails) - Narrative, sequential style, link to other specific pages
- ideally most of them.
* Rails-specific Five Minute Introduction (to be read after the
other 5 minute one). Cucumber Backgrounder is a very good start
for this, but I think it's a little rambling :-)
I'd like to write these intros myself, so please don't start doing
massive edits. Instead, I'd love to get input of an outline for
these Introduction pages.
How does that sound?
Ok, I'll give a stab at what a 5 minute introduction might contain.
Please comment.
1) Who should use Cucumber, and what benefits can you get from it?
2) How Cucumber works (high level explanation without getting too
technical).
3) Learn the nomenclature - features, scenarios, steps (step
definitions later). Some style guidlines.
Totally agree. This is the "shoehorn" I was looking for - partly. Having
YOU write it would be far far better than anyone else, because of your
knowledge and communication skills. People like me can best serve by
giving feedback, as the writing proceeds.
4) What does a Cucumber feature look like (plain - no outlines or
tables). Learn how to write one in a simple text editor.
Absolutely.
5) How to install and run Cucumber (using the one from 3
you mean "4"?
as example. No Rake yet - just the cucumber command)
Yeah. Keep it minimal, but something that will actually run and produce
results to study. Which leads us to...
6) What does the output from Cucumber mean? (Learn to read the
deafault console output. Colours and error messages. Mention other
formatters)
yes yes yes
7) Learn to write step definitions (they are similar to defining
methods in most imperative languages like Ruby, Java, C, Pascal....).
Mention Regexps, Rubular.com.
Would be very very helpful.
8) How to implement the body of a step definition. Learn about RSpec's
#should and #should_not - and matchers
Man, could I use this. Things go really dark for me at this point. Just
haven't gotten there yet.
9) How to fix a failing (red) step definition by writing some code (in
lib for now since we're not doing any Rails)
Yes. Especially the part about excluding Rails. And this, to me looks
like the end of the beginning. What follows is very helpful, but by this
point the boat is launched. I DO dearly want the rest of what you've
written, however, so don't drop anything from the outline, if you have
the time to carry through to the end.
10) Mention DTSTTCPW and refactoring - with some external links. TDD basics.
11) Learn how to use Rake (useful when you have more than one feature
file). Mention RCov.
Nos. 10-11 look especially interesting to me.
12) Learn about the various command-line switches
13) Learn about more advanced Gherkin (Cucumber language) features
such as Tables, PyString, Scenario Outlines and Background (coming soon)
I'm not sure, but I'm thinking that Tables and Scenario Outlines (to the
extent that I understand them) might well come earlier in the outline.
On the other hand, those of us who want to could simple skip ahead to
grab the material when we need it.
14) Learn about hooks (Before, After etc)
15) Various other features (CUCUMBER_COLORS, AutoTest, cucumber.yml
(profiles)
From here on, I think we're into the "and it'd be nice if we had
something about..." territory. Dessert.
16) IDE support
Interesting. I work exclusively with the CLI, and love it. Used to work
with IDEs, but converted.
17) How to use other assertion tools like Test::Unit, Shoulda, etc.
18) How to use Cukes with non-Ruby platforms (Watir family, JRuby,
IronRuby, FunFX/Flex)
Terrific outline, I'd say. I cannot imagine not getting what I want,
from this material. It'll suck people like me into the process, and when
we get into trouble we can shout out, which will lead to possible
additions (but I don't think they'll be major).

I'll stay glued to me email inbox (and the wiki) to watch this develop.
This is a gift I simply didn't expect, and especially not right when I
most need it.

This is going to be very very helpful, and to an increasing number of
people, I'll predict.

I'm excited about this development. Thanks so much.

Tom
The reader will gradually learn about the recommended file layout structure.
Maybe this is more like a 10-15 minute intro. I'll try to keep it as
short as possible without skipping important concepts.
What's missing? What's in the wrong order? What should I remove?
Aslak
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< tc-rItITSJN2CpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd
2009-01-18 02:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by aslak hellesoy
Ok, I'll give a stab at what a 5 minute introduction might contain.
Please comment.
1) Who should use Cucumber, and what benefits can you get from it?
2) How Cucumber works (high level explanation without getting too
technical).
3) Learn the nomenclature - features, scenarios, steps (step
definitions later). Some style guidlines.
4) What does a Cucumber feature look like (plain - no outlines or
tables). Learn how to write one in a simple text editor.
5) How to install and run Cucumber (using the one from 3 as example.
No Rake yet - just the cucumber command)
6) What does the output from Cucumber mean? (Learn to read the
deafault console output. Colours and error messages. Mention other
formatters)
I just thought of a possible addition. Might go here, or possibly earlier.

"Starting points" - how to implement Cucumber, starting from where you
are now with your coding project.

1. Group One: Haven't started yet; just getting organized. How to use
this tool to Do It Right.
2. Group Two: HAVE started, and some thing are already working, but have
no testing in place, and significant coding to launch. What to do to
bring in cucumber most efficiently.
3. Group Three: Have working code. Want to bring in testing. It is it
too late to use Cucumber? If not, how do I do it?

What's needed isn't so much detailed instructions as is a priority list,
and a clear starting point. Details can be worked out using the
discussion list, I imagine. A top-down approach. For amateurs like me,
it's hard for me to do top-down, when I know so little.

For example: I'm in Group Two, with my most important project, and I'm
my own customer, as it were. What I'm doing (tonight, in fact), is
simulating a fresh start, starting with a few simple classes, which I
haven't written yet (because I don't write classes - I'm totally
procedural, but that's changing immediately), working to move ahead
quickly by adapting existing code to the new framework, as it were. But,
of course, I'm not at all sure I'm going about it right. I'll fumble
through, until things get clearer, but a little recipe of sorts would be
very helpful, and I don't have one.

I hope this helps!

Tom
Post by aslak hellesoy
7) Learn to write step definitions (they are similar to defining
methods in most imperative languages like Ruby, Java, C, Pascal....).
Mention Regexps, Rubular.com.
8) How to implement the body of a step definition. Learn about RSpec's
#should and #should_not - and matchers
9) How to fix a failing (red) step definition by writing some code (in
lib for now since we're not doing any Rails)
10) Mention DTSTTCPW and refactoring - with some external links. TDD basics.
11) Learn how to use Rake (useful when you have more than one feature
file). Mention RCov.
12) Learn about the various command-line switches
13) Learn about more advanced Gherkin (Cucumber language) features
such as Tables, PyString, Scenario Outlines and Background (coming soon)
14) Learn about hooks (Before, After etc)
15) Various other features (CUCUMBER_COLORS, AutoTest, cucumber.yml
(profiles)
16) IDE support
17) How to use other assertion tools like Test::Unit, Shoulda, etc.
18) How to use Cukes with non-Ruby platforms (Watir family, JRuby,
IronRuby, FunFX/Flex)
The reader will gradually learn about the recommended file layout structure.
Maybe this is more like a 10-15 minute intro. I'll try to keep it as
short as possible without skipping important concepts.
What's missing? What's in the wrong order? What should I remove?
Aslak
Aslak
I'm working on this thing right now, and maybe it'll be far
enough along for some kind of review this weekend. Or...I
could put it up, say on a Google Sites wiki, and several of us
could work on it. Any thoughts? I actually prefer to work in a
group, but have already started on my own.
Yeah, I like that idea - a temporary Google Sites wiki.
Tom
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website) << sleightmind.wordpress.com
<http://sleightmind.wordpress.com> >> (mental health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
Aslak (::)
--
Aslak (::)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< tc-rItITSJN2CpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Andrew Premdas
2009-01-18 17:06:39 UTC
Permalink
I'd just like to point out that the Github wiki tool is somewhat challenged
by a project with so much good documentation like cucumber has. The lack of
search, and the layout is really poor. Might it be better to host a more
able wiki on another site, and use the github wiki to point to this external
documentation?

All best

Andrew
Post by aslak hellesoy
Post by aslak hellesoy
Post by Tom Cloyd
Post by Fernando Perez
Hi,
I actually just noticed that Cucumber has plenty good documentation on
- The homepage is badly designed as it doesn't really outline an order
to read other pages
- It is impossible to make the difference between internal links to the
wiki and links that will bring us some where else unless we hover over
the link
- Pages don't link to each other such as: read next page or previous
page, or related pages
- Pages are just sorted alphabetically which is not a proper way of
sorting
Would it be possible to at least number the pages in the order in which
we should read as if we were reading a book about cucumber?
The documentation seems excellent but is definitely not well marketed
for new comers :)
Oh, I totally agree. Add in the fact that the Rails stuff is just a mess
for non-Rails people to read, and we really have two problems to solve.
That's how I, at least, have been experiencing it.
My own solution is to build my own procedural outline. I'm working on it
today, in fact - sort of a "Cucumber for dummies" document. In my
conception, liberal use will be made of links to existing pages, or to
sections thereof, as there's no need to attempt to redo what the experts
have already done well. I figure if I write what I wish I'd encountered when
I went to the wiki, and then see if I can get it there, it might help other
folks.
Your final sentence says it all - great documentation, but not for
newbies. Where's the starting point? Etc.
Where is the starting point! There is none! Haha. And the GitHub Wiki Home
page is probably the worst page in the whole Wiki.
1) Move a lot of the random stuff from Home to separate pages
* General Five Minute Introduction (Pure Cucumber/Ruby stuff - no Rails) -
Narrative, sequential style, link to other specific pages - ideally most of
them.
* Rails-specific Five Minute Introduction (to be read after the other 5
minute one). Cucumber Backgrounder is a very good start for this, but I
think it's a little rambling :-)
I'd like to write these intros myself, so please don't start doing massive
edits. Instead, I'd love to get input of an outline for these Introduction
pages.
How does that sound?
Ok, I'll give a stab at what a 5 minute introduction might contain. Please
comment.
1) Who should use Cucumber, and what benefits can you get from it?
2) How Cucumber works (high level explanation without getting too
technical).
3) Learn the nomenclature - features, scenarios, steps (step definitions
later). Some style guidlines.
4) What does a Cucumber feature look like (plain - no outlines or tables).
Learn how to write one in a simple text editor.
5) How to install and run Cucumber (using the one from 3 as example. No
Rake yet - just the cucumber command)
6) What does the output from Cucumber mean? (Learn to read the deafault
console output. Colours and error messages. Mention other formatters)
7) Learn to write step definitions (they are similar to defining methods in
most imperative languages like Ruby, Java, C, Pascal....). Mention Regexps,
Rubular.com.
8) How to implement the body of a step definition. Learn about RSpec's
#should and #should_not - and matchers
9) How to fix a failing (red) step definition by writing some code (in lib
for now since we're not doing any Rails)
10) Mention DTSTTCPW and refactoring - with some external links. TDD basics.
11) Learn how to use Rake (useful when you have more than one feature
file). Mention RCov.
12) Learn about the various command-line switches
13) Learn about more advanced Gherkin (Cucumber language) features such as
Tables, PyString, Scenario Outlines and Background (coming soon)
14) Learn about hooks (Before, After etc)
15) Various other features (CUCUMBER_COLORS, AutoTest, cucumber.yml
(profiles)
16) IDE support
17) How to use other assertion tools like Test::Unit, Shoulda, etc.
18) How to use Cukes with non-Ruby platforms (Watir family, JRuby,
IronRuby, FunFX/Flex)
The reader will gradually learn about the recommended file layout structure.
Maybe this is more like a 10-15 minute intro. I'll try to keep it as short
as possible without skipping important concepts.
What's missing? What's in the wrong order? What should I remove?
Aslak
Post by aslak hellesoy
Aslak
Post by Tom Cloyd
I'm working on this thing right now, and maybe it'll be far enough along
for some kind of review this weekend. Or...I could put it up, say on a
Google Sites wiki, and several of us could work on it. Any thoughts? I
actually prefer to work in a group, but have already started on my own.
Yeah, I like that idea - a temporary Google Sites wiki.
Tom
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website) << sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental
health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
Aslak (::)
--
Aslak (::)
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Tim Walker
2009-01-18 17:57:27 UTC
Permalink
This is great news. One possible way to do this incrementally on the
github wiki would be to create a subwiki (page?) called "the cucumber
book" (TCB) which has an organization and a little governnace around
change that is further defined just like what Aslak has so generously
created. From there the sections in TCB can grow in a controlled way,
the other stuff is just there as supporting information and special
subjects, etc. Just a thought. T
Post by Andrew Premdas
I'd just like to point out that the Github wiki tool is somewhat challenged
by a project with so much good documentation like cucumber has. The lack of
search, and the layout is really poor. Might it be better to host a more
able wiki on another site, and use the github wiki to point to this external
documentation?
All best
Andrew
Post by aslak hellesoy
Post by aslak hellesoy
Post by Tom Cloyd
Post by Fernando Perez
Hi,
I actually just noticed that Cucumber has plenty good documentation on
- The homepage is badly designed as it doesn't really outline an order
to read other pages
- It is impossible to make the difference between internal links to the
wiki and links that will bring us some where else unless we hover over
the link
- Pages don't link to each other such as: read next page or previous
page, or related pages
- Pages are just sorted alphabetically which is not a proper way of
sorting
Would it be possible to at least number the pages in the order in which
we should read as if we were reading a book about cucumber?
The documentation seems excellent but is definitely not well marketed
for new comers :)
Oh, I totally agree. Add in the fact that the Rails stuff is just a mess
for non-Rails people to read, and we really have two problems to solve.
That's how I, at least, have been experiencing it.
My own solution is to build my own procedural outline. I'm working on it
today, in fact - sort of a "Cucumber for dummies" document. In my
conception, liberal use will be made of links to existing pages, or to
sections thereof, as there's no need to attempt to redo what the experts
have already done well. I figure if I write what I wish I'd encountered when
I went to the wiki, and then see if I can get it there, it might help other
folks.
Your final sentence says it all - great documentation, but not for
newbies. Where's the starting point? Etc.
Where is the starting point! There is none! Haha. And the GitHub Wiki
Home page is probably the worst page in the whole Wiki.
1) Move a lot of the random stuff from Home to separate pages
* General Five Minute Introduction (Pure Cucumber/Ruby stuff - no Rails)
- Narrative, sequential style, link to other specific pages - ideally most
of them.
* Rails-specific Five Minute Introduction (to be read after the other 5
minute one). Cucumber Backgrounder is a very good start for this, but I
think it's a little rambling :-)
I'd like to write these intros myself, so please don't start doing
massive edits. Instead, I'd love to get input of an outline for these
Introduction pages.
How does that sound?
Ok, I'll give a stab at what a 5 minute introduction might contain. Please
comment.
1) Who should use Cucumber, and what benefits can you get from it?
2) How Cucumber works (high level explanation without getting too
technical).
3) Learn the nomenclature - features, scenarios, steps (step definitions
later). Some style guidlines.
4) What does a Cucumber feature look like (plain - no outlines or tables).
Learn how to write one in a simple text editor.
5) How to install and run Cucumber (using the one from 3 as example. No
Rake yet - just the cucumber command)
6) What does the output from Cucumber mean? (Learn to read the deafault
console output. Colours and error messages. Mention other formatters)
7) Learn to write step definitions (they are similar to defining methods
in most imperative languages like Ruby, Java, C, Pascal....). Mention
Regexps, Rubular.com.
8) How to implement the body of a step definition. Learn about RSpec's
#should and #should_not - and matchers
9) How to fix a failing (red) step definition by writing some code (in lib
for now since we're not doing any Rails)
10) Mention DTSTTCPW and refactoring - with some external links. TDD basics.
11) Learn how to use Rake (useful when you have more than one feature
file). Mention RCov.
12) Learn about the various command-line switches
13) Learn about more advanced Gherkin (Cucumber language) features such as
Tables, PyString, Scenario Outlines and Background (coming soon)
14) Learn about hooks (Before, After etc)
15) Various other features (CUCUMBER_COLORS, AutoTest, cucumber.yml
(profiles)
16) IDE support
17) How to use other assertion tools like Test::Unit, Shoulda, etc.
18) How to use Cukes with non-Ruby platforms (Watir family, JRuby,
IronRuby, FunFX/Flex)
The reader will gradually learn about the recommended file layout structure.
Maybe this is more like a 10-15 minute intro. I'll try to keep it as short
as possible without skipping important concepts.
What's missing? What's in the wrong order? What should I remove?
Aslak
Post by aslak hellesoy
Aslak
Post by Tom Cloyd
I'm working on this thing right now, and maybe it'll be far enough along
for some kind of review this weekend. Or...I could put it up, say on a
Google Sites wiki, and several of us could work on it. Any thoughts? I
actually prefer to work in a group, but have already started on my own.
Yeah, I like that idea - a temporary Google Sites wiki.
Tom
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website) << sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental
health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
Aslak (::)
--
Aslak (::)
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Fernando Perez
2009-01-18 23:01:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Premdas
I'd just like to point out that the Github wiki tool is somewhat challenged
Yeah I also think that the github wiki is showing its limits. It works
when the project only requires a few pages of documentation, but not for
Cucumber.

Github should only be used for what Git is meant to be: a distributed
SCM and no more, i.e: cloning, pulling, pushing, forking.

For documentation and other stuff a dedicated website is more
appropriate, like cukes.info, in fact I was surprised to see that the
documentation was still hosted at github, it adds more confusion to
newbies. One size doesn't always fits all.
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
aslak hellesoy
2009-01-19 00:32:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fernando Perez
Post by Andrew Premdas
I'd just like to point out that the Github wiki tool is somewhat challenged
Yeah I also think that the github wiki is showing its limits. It works
when the project only requires a few pages of documentation, but not for
Cucumber.
Github should only be used for what Git is meant to be: a distributed
SCM and no more, i.e: cloning, pulling, pushing, forking.
For documentation and other stuff a dedicated website is more
appropriate, like cukes.info, in fact I was surprised to see that the
documentation was still hosted at github, it adds more confusion to
newbies. One size doesn't always fits all.
To paraphrase DrNic:
http://drnicwilliams.com/2008/12/21/migrating-project-websites-to-github-pages-with-sake-tasks-new-websites-with-jekyll_generator/

The purpose of cukes.info is to *sell* Cucumber.
The purpose of the GitHub wiki is to *educate* people who have decided to
give it a spin.

Why 2 sites? GitHub wikis have their own visual style - they are not suited
to brand anything.
On the other hand, I don't have time or even desire to create a wiki that is
as good as the GitHub wiki and put it on cukes.info.

Aslak
Post by Fernando Perez
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
Aslak (::)
James Byrne
2009-01-19 15:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Aslak Hellesøy wrote:
.
Post by aslak hellesoy
On the other hand, I don't have time or even desire to create a wiki
that is as good as the GitHub wiki and put it on cukes.info.
My only addition is that there is nothing preventing a community effort
to add a standard navigation page to the front of the Cucumber GitHub
wiki, comb through and classify all of the existing pages according to
essential topic, and update or supplement the links on each page to
point to related information.
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
aslak hellesoy
2009-01-23 08:49:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by aslak hellesoy
Post by aslak hellesoy
Post by Tom Cloyd
Post by Fernando Perez
Hi,
I actually just noticed that Cucumber has plenty good documentation on
- The homepage is badly designed as it doesn't really outline an order
to read other pages
- It is impossible to make the difference between internal links to the
wiki and links that will bring us some where else unless we hover over
the link
- Pages don't link to each other such as: read next page or previous
page, or related pages
- Pages are just sorted alphabetically which is not a proper way of
sorting
Would it be possible to at least number the pages in the order in which
we should read as if we were reading a book about cucumber?
The documentation seems excellent but is definitely not well marketed
for new comers :)
Oh, I totally agree. Add in the fact that the Rails stuff is just a mess
for non-Rails people to read, and we really have two problems to solve.
That's how I, at least, have been experiencing it.
My own solution is to build my own procedural outline. I'm working on it
today, in fact - sort of a "Cucumber for dummies" document. In my
conception, liberal use will be made of links to existing pages, or to
sections thereof, as there's no need to attempt to redo what the experts
have already done well. I figure if I write what I wish I'd encountered when
I went to the wiki, and then see if I can get it there, it might help other
folks.
Your final sentence says it all - great documentation, but not for
newbies. Where's the starting point? Etc.
Where is the starting point! There is none! Haha. And the GitHub Wiki Home
page is probably the worst page in the whole Wiki.
1) Move a lot of the random stuff from Home to separate pages
* General Five Minute Introduction (Pure Cucumber/Ruby stuff - no Rails) -
Narrative, sequential style, link to other specific pages - ideally most of
them.
* Rails-specific Five Minute Introduction (to be read after the other 5
minute one). Cucumber Backgrounder is a very good start for this, but I
think it's a little rambling :-)
I'd like to write these intros myself, so please don't start doing massive
edits. Instead, I'd love to get input of an outline for these Introduction
pages.
How does that sound?
Ok, I'll give a stab at what a 5 minute introduction might contain. Please
comment.
1) Who should use Cucumber, and what benefits can you get from it?
2) How Cucumber works (high level explanation without getting too
technical).
3) Learn the nomenclature - features, scenarios, steps (step definitions
later). Some style guidlines.
4) What does a Cucumber feature look like (plain - no outlines or tables).
Learn how to write one in a simple text editor.
5) How to install and run Cucumber (using the one from 3 as example. No
Rake yet - just the cucumber command)
6) What does the output from Cucumber mean? (Learn to read the deafault
console output. Colours and error messages. Mention other formatters)
7) Learn to write step definitions (they are similar to defining methods in
most imperative languages like Ruby, Java, C, Pascal....). Mention Regexps,
Rubular.com.
8) How to implement the body of a step definition. Learn about RSpec's
#should and #should_not - and matchers
9) How to fix a failing (red) step definition by writing some code (in lib
for now since we're not doing any Rails)
10) Mention DTSTTCPW and refactoring - with some external links. TDD basics.
11) Learn how to use Rake (useful when you have more than one feature
file). Mention RCov.
12) Learn about the various command-line switches
13) Learn about more advanced Gherkin (Cucumber language) features such as
Tables, PyString, Scenario Outlines and Background (coming soon)
13.5) Learn about how to substitute <variable> in steps and multiline args
(table, pystring) from examples tables.
Post by aslak hellesoy
14) Learn about hooks (Before, After etc)
15) Various other features (CUCUMBER_COLORS, AutoTest, cucumber.yml
(profiles)
16) IDE support
17) How to use other assertion tools like Test::Unit, Shoulda, etc.
18) How to use Cukes with non-Ruby platforms (Watir family, JRuby,
IronRuby, FunFX/Flex)
18.5) Pure Java via JBehave
Post by aslak hellesoy
The reader will gradually learn about the recommended file layout structure.
Maybe this is more like a 10-15 minute intro. I'll try to keep it as short
as possible without skipping important concepts.
What's missing? What's in the wrong order? What should I remove?
Aslak
Post by aslak hellesoy
Aslak
Post by Tom Cloyd
I'm working on this thing right now, and maybe it'll be far enough along
for some kind of review this weekend. Or...I could put it up, say on a
Google Sites wiki, and several of us could work on it. Any thoughts? I
actually prefer to work in a group, but have already started on my own.
Yeah, I like that idea - a temporary Google Sites wiki.
Tom
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website) << sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental
health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
Aslak (::)
--
Aslak (::)
--
Aslak (::)
aidy lewis
2009-01-23 11:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi
18) How to use Cukes with non-Ruby platforms (Watir family, ....
I will gladly put something together on Cucumber and Watir.

Aidy
aslak hellesoy
2009-01-23 11:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by aidy lewis
Hi
18) How to use Cukes with non-Ruby platforms (Watir family, ....
I will gladly put something together on Cucumber and Watir.
Be my guest! Please also link to the Watir examples in the sources at GitHub

Aslak
Post by aidy lewis
Aidy
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
Aslak (::)
Tom Cloyd
2009-01-18 00:50:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fernando Perez
Hi,
I actually just noticed that Cucumber has plenty good
documentation on
- The homepage is badly designed as it doesn't really outline an order
to read other pages
- It is impossible to make the difference between internal links to the
wiki and links that will bring us some where else unless we hover over
the link
- Pages don't link to each other such as: read next page or previous
page, or related pages
- Pages are just sorted alphabetically which is not a proper way of
sorting
Would it be possible to at least number the pages in the order in which
we should read as if we were reading a book about cucumber?
The documentation seems excellent but is definitely not well marketed
for new comers :)
Oh, I totally agree. Add in the fact that the Rails stuff is just
a mess for non-Rails people to read, and we really have two
problems to solve. That's how I, at least, have been experiencing it.
My own solution is to build my own procedural outline. I'm working
on it today, in fact - sort of a "Cucumber for dummies" document.
In my conception, liberal use will be made of links to existing
pages, or to sections thereof, as there's no need to attempt to
redo what the experts have already done well. I figure if I write
what I wish I'd encountered when I went to the wiki, and then see
if I can get it there, it might help other folks.
Your final sentence says it all - great documentation, but not for
newbies. Where's the starting point? Etc.
Where is the starting point! There is none! Haha. And the GitHub Wiki
Home page is probably the worst page in the whole Wiki.
1) Move a lot of the random stuff from Home to separate pages
* General Five Minute Introduction (Pure Cucumber/Ruby stuff - no
Rails) - Narrative, sequential style, link to other specific pages -
ideally most of them.
* Rails-specific Five Minute Introduction (to be read after the other
5 minute one). Cucumber Backgrounder is a very good start for this,
but I think it's a little rambling :-)
I'd like to write these intros myself, so please don't start doing
massive edits. Instead, I'd love to get input of an outline for these
Introduction pages.
How does that sound?
Aslak
I'm working on this thing right now, and maybe it'll be far enough
along for some kind of review this weekend. Or...I could put it
up, say on a Google Sites wiki, and several of us could work on
it. Any thoughts? I actually prefer to work in a group, but have
already started on my own.
Yeah, I like that idea - a temporary Google Sites wiki.
Tom
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website) << sleightmind.wordpress.com
<http://sleightmind.wordpress.com> >> (mental health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_______________________________________________
rspec-users mailing list
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
--
Aslak (::)
Aslak,

I can speak only for myself, but...

You're a genius. You nailed it, conceptually. You wrote exactly what
I've been thinking of. My own outline's going slowing, for the obvious
reason that I don't really know what I'm doing. So...

I especially like the part about your writing it, with feedback. There's
no one more qualified. And...it'll be right, from the beginning.

I'm really excited about this. I'm committed to getting myself launched
with Cucumber this weekend. Hey, you can help, if you want :).

Many, many thanks. (understatement)

Tom
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< tc-rItITSJN2CpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >> (website)
<< sleightmind.wordpress.com >> (mental health weblog)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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